Band on the Run

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Posts by Band on the Run

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  16

  Clergy-penitent privilege

  by Honesty in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  three ministers or elders of the tinian congregation of jehovah's witnesses are asking the superior court to quash the government's subpoena that commands them to appear at a jury trial of a man accused of sexually abusing a girl.. .

  bob morie, emyl lumba, and dwight manglona stated in their motion that the subpoena would be burdensome and oppressive since it requires the disclosure of privileged and protected information.. .

  http://www.saipantribune.com/newsstory.aspx?newsid=109303.

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  Band on the Run

  Mandated reporting is one thing and privilege is another. Privilege existed at common law. I think the key component is what the parties expectation was concerning privacy and confidentiality. If no confidentiality existed, there is no reason for the privilege. It puts you on guard to watch your match with certain people and freely unburden yourself with others.

  I'm curious just how the Witnesses' process differs from Roman Catholic and Protestant churches. The Witness claim isn't so crazy to me but I don't know the behind the scenes maneuvering. The elders would be the very last people my family would ever consult. I suppose another factor is why one isn't enough. Sometimes you can pile on translators or parents but it is difficult.

  My entire life I was interested in Catholic confession. A few weeks ago I was in the cathedral in the nearest city. The confessional booth was there and no one was around so I opened it and snooped some. No hocus pocus. It just seemed extremely uncomfortable.

  I agree that it is audacious to claim there is no clergy class and then claim the privilege. If I were a judge, I would note that. Also, others here have written about vicarious liability problems b/c the WTBTS assumes no responsibility for the workings of KH. They don't have a coherent legal theory. It is mish mash.
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  29

  1975???

  by 21stcenturywoman in

  1. social
  2. humour

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  [endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"times new roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif].

  i have a few questions about 1975. i was born after 1975, so i don't know too much about the armageddon prediction.

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  Band on the Run

  All right. I was a college student. The pervailing atmosphere was 1975 and I clearly remember talks about it from the podium at Yankee Stadium. Franz' speech stands out b/c it was big news. The biggest news since creation itself. Maybe they had disclaimers. From my mom's experience, they certainly had enough practice to stick in some disclaimers. So all those people suddenly left the Witnesses for no reason? They heartily encouraged it.

  Who can tell me all the terms and conditions of Facebook and itunes right now, without looking?

  Imagine all the Witnesses who changed their lives for their ruin based upon this 1975 business. I never believed I would survive Armageddon. Just being human was sin enough. I wasn't a perfect Bethel hotshot. My terror was real. And I was exposed to someone who had gone through this drill before to no avail. I had already studied NT at college. Nevertheless, it was spooky. It was worse than the demons.
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  144

  1st Cen. Christianity - One Organization

  by StandFirm in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  here is the promised debate.

  the subject is whether or not god has an organization.

  i'll start things simply:.

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  Band on the Run

  Also, only church myth places Peter at Rome. There is not a shred of proof Peter was there. It seems very unlikely that Peter travelled to Rome. We have documentation for Paul, but not for Peter. Such a momental event and the bringing of Jewish customs to Rome would garner some coverage or discussion among Christians.

  Don't get me started about RC, especially the fold brand. They make the Witnesses appear credible which is some feat.
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  144

  1st Cen. Christianity - One Organization

  by StandFirm in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  here is the promised debate.

  the subject is whether or not god has an organization.

  i'll start things simply:.

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  Band on the Run

  If the leader of the church was the Bishop of Rome, why is Rome conscpicuously absent in all the early doctrines and conferences of the church. The true leaders were all Middle Eastern. I can't think of one prominent Church Father. Many were No. African, too.

  You can't believe your rosary beads.
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  27

  Smurf Rumors - 2 Questions

  by A question in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as the board no doubt knows, there was some sort of rumor in the early 1980s going around amongst the witnesses that a smurf doll came to life in the kingdom hall, or that smurfs were demonic.. 2 questions:.

  1. do any not remember any such rumors though they were witnesses at the time?.

  2. of those who do, did all the witnesses believe them, or otherwise, what proportion rejected the rumor as nonsense?.

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  Band on the Run

  Does anyone note the similarities to the Salem Witch Trials? All you have to do is change the names. While no JWs were executed, what would happen if WTBTS had temporal power? I believed these wholly unlikely Witness stories as a kid.
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  16

  Clergy-penitent privilege

  by Honesty in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  three ministers or elders of the tinian congregation of jehovah's witnesses are asking the superior court to quash the government's subpoena that commands them to appear at a jury trial of a man accused of sexually abusing a girl.. .

  bob morie, emyl lumba, and dwight manglona stated in their motion that the subpoena would be burdensome and oppressive since it requires the disclosure of privileged and protected information.. .

  http://www.saipantribune.com/newsstory.aspx?newsid=109303.

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  Band on the Run

  o you have a citation or the full case name for the CA case. Every state determines its own clery privilege law, though, so a CA case will only control CA.

  And how high up is the CA case? a trial court or an appellate court.

  It seems to me that to deny the Witnesses' priest penitent protection is to discriminate against a religion. They can't base it on the Roman Catholic religious model only.

  I never paid any attention b/c confession and absolution was not part of the Witness regimen. There has to be some expectation of privacy and confidentiality I suppose for the privilege to be upheld. I have no clue what the Witnesses do. Counselling itself may or may not have privacy involved.

  I find it very interesting.
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  30

  Uganda "Kill the Gays" bill could be passed in 72 hours...Sign the Petition

  by unshackled in

  1. social
  2. current

  this is barbaric.

  we can help stop it by signing this petition.

  here is the link to the site: http://www.allout.org/en/petition/uganda.

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  Band on the Run

  Has Amnesty International called for this action? I was present when the Nobel prize winners discussed two countries where letters from the West would only inflame a situation: Uganda and Albania. This was years ago so it may have changed.

  I would suggest donating money to a Uganda org fighting within that is not corrupt. Imagine being gay and stuck in Uganda. it must be absolutely terrifying.
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  184

  most depressing song ever

  by will_the_apostate in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  whats the most depressing song you have ever heard?

  i would go with either johnny cash - hurt or gary jules-mad world.

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  Band on the Run

  Bob Dylan has a slew of songs/stories about the country or South that would easily qualify. Most of them are ballads. Blowing' in the Wind surpised me a lot being in this category. For me, it was the companion to We Shall Overcome, the anthens of the civil rights movement. On its face, it is a bummer. It was sung defiantly, however, so I always viewed it as a very affirming song. I suppose many of his songs fit that genre. VEry sad on their face but also strong political statements.

  Masters of War is one. I have a volume of his lyrics. Most of his sad songs are from his early years. He says it just doesn't flow out of him anymore. Chronicles is a great read. He talks about people not showing up for his concerts and yet selling out not for his music but his status as folk czar, generational spokesperson. Having attended Bangladesh where he took the concert from George Harrison to later concerts where we should have gotten refunds, he should attend his own concerts. I will never, ever forget Bangladesh. A few months later he did a commercial tour. He was abysmal.

  A Dylan thread would be cool.
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  11

  Was Michael Jackson reproved in 1983 and DF/DA in 1989?

  by Olin Moyles Ghost in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there seems to be quite a bit of conflicting information about michael jackson's jw status as a young man.

  it's clear that he was raised a witness and that he was a practicing witness (a publisher) in the 1970s and early 1980s.

  but there's some uncertainty about (1) whether he was baptized, and (2) whether and when he was df/da.. i was looking around on yahoo answers and found the following question: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=aqerwd.lhqkco.59fnqahbrty6ix;_ylv=3?qid=20090628174024aafwsky&show=7.

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  Band on the Run

  Did anyone else here watch the crotch-grabbing and lyrics, the dedication to celebrity and wonder why he was not disfellowshipped when it would have been the end of you or me. I read that many young Witness girls equated him with the Archangel Michael. It made me sick what his money bought.

  Yet one of his closest advisers, the weird but nice Jewish rabbi, said Michael went downhill fast when he left the Witnesses.

  Growing up, I would have like a true superstar in the Witnesses. The closest I ever got was Dritz of Dritz sewing who may have just attended one meeting and some witness knocking on doors talking to Jacqueline Kennedy. I believed the Jackie conversation at the time. She said her brother-in-law, Robert, the A-G, was familiar with the Witnesses, which is a funny comment. He knew them because of law enforcement. Now I doubt she answered her own door. I also doubt the Witnesses could go door to door in a very upscale private community.

  The Witnesses seem to attract black folk. Nothing wrong with that - only an observation.
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  29

  1975???

  by 21stcenturywoman in

  1. social
  2. humour

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  [endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"times new roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif].

  i have a few questions about 1975. i was born after 1975, so i don't know too much about the armageddon prediction.

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  Band on the Run

  I heard it numerous times from the platform. My memories of Freddie Franz explaining his calculations at Yankee Stadium--it had with Eve's menstruation-is vivid in my mind. We were told not to tell householers but it was talked about endlessly at the KH. After I left, a Witness came knocking on my door. I stood up to her with my newly acquired rudimentary Bible knowledge. She threatened me with 1975. I responded that it was a close secret only to Witnesses and how could I say what I saying as a Witness. So I went to call Brooklyn for a consultation and she freaked with fear.

  I was finished with college by 1975. Despite not believing, I was terrified. I wasn't in the world long enough to be secure. 1975 started with college graduation and yet was one of the worst years of my life. I suspended normal life b/c I was so afraid. My body was full of stress. And my mom lived through several Armageddon prediction dates and always dated their authenticity.

  She believed she went meet and greet Abraham, Noah, David, Solomon at the Prince's House. It was everyone's expectation. They never showed up. I knew all this, most Witnesses do not, and it was one hell of a year anyway. I always figured they might be right and it certainly is fearsome.

  Speech after speech about 1975, Please. They think people like me drop dead. I will bear witness that 1975 was heavily promoted.